For the latest episode of Let’s Talk Mate, Solent Mind’s men’s mental health chat, the group went into more detail about a topic that has come up a number of times before.

In a podcast talking about men’s mental health, the idea of masculinity is always in the background, but for the latest discussion its an in depth look at how perceptions of masculinity can affect mental health.

Solent Mind Digital Content Officer Sam Clarke is joined by three returning guests; Southampton Peer Support Team’s Loysen, Positive Minds’ Phill and Portsmouth Peer Recovery Service Manager Rob.

The group cover topics such as how symptoms of anxiety & depression can differ in men, the caution to express anxious feelings and how some traditional masculine ideals make it harder for men to speak up.

‘Man up’

What are the expectations of masculinity traditionally? It is a key thing to establish as part of this discussion, which then impacts how that impacts men when they start feeling affected, or when the pressures of that expectation are the trigger.

Rob’s experienced that pressure in a previous job, as he explains: “I can always go back to a couple of examples in previous jobs, working with challenging clients in a very stressful and difficult environment. I was still very new, within my first few months, I was very open with my manager that I suffered with anxiety.

“I always remember being told to ‘man up’ and be more decisive, plough on and not stop to ask for reassurance where I wasn’t as sure because I was just starting. So sometimes even when you try to get away from those narrow, old fashioned views of masculinity, sometimes you find its pushed back on you.”

Phil then question the ever present phrase in a lot of men’s lifes: “That phrase ‘man up’ is just.. I mean, what does it even mean? There is no parameters, there is no definition, it is just a general get out clause for telling people to stop showing their emotions. It is a horrific phrase.”

Where do discussions happen?

The reason Let’s Talk Mate was started was to encourage health discussion about mental health, and this is something that while a lot of work is being done, there is still plenty more room to grow.

Rob thinks back to a time where he spoke a lot less about his mental health and feelings, except from one scenario where it call come out: “When I was younger, the only time I seemed to think about these issues was the end of a Friday night, when I had a lot of beer. Then obviously things don’t always go to plan, you end up getting angry because you don’t think people understood you. I do wonder how many men have grown up with that being the only time they can actually be honest and get their feelings.”

Sam then jumped in to add: “It then almost gets disregarded the next day as ‘oh I was a bit soppy last night, wasn’t I? Had a bit much to drink’.

“You almost want to be able to give yourself that excuse and just brush it aside, which then almost doesn’t allow people to follow up and say like ‘are you actually alright?’ because they don’t want to then embarrass them.”

For Loysen, this reminded him of his time coming back from deployment in the military: “When you come back and you get to go out, you get a bit drunk and 9/10 those experiences come out. We talk about what has happened, people we have lost along the way, how traumatic that episode was.

“Sooner or later you are walking down the street, you are holding eachother up, and you look at your friend like ‘I love you mate, don’t know how I’d cope without you’ but the next morning you wake up and are like ‘wow, I got really drunk last night, sorry I acted like that’.”

Normalising conversations

A lot of this comes back to normalising conversations about mental health amongst men, and allowing them to talk about what is making them feel anxious in a healthy way.

Sam explains: “I’ll say to my friends sometimes ‘Rather than go to this really busy pub, can we go to this quieter one down the road tonight?’, and I’m comfortable enough to do that, but I don’t think a lot of men are.

“It won’t come out until they go to that really busy club that they don’t really feel like going to, whether it be an actual [anxiety] attack, or it be some kind of aggression or irritability. Then if it comes out in that, it gets disregarded as just that, most men would rather say they got really angry than they got anxious and overwhelmed.”

The key to that sometimes, as Phil said: “There has to be a massive degree of self-awareness there.”

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